Promoting Higher Birth Rates amongst British Citizens

General and Other Policy
21

I am cautious about taking this thread too far off-topic, but is not all state action a step along the path to controlling society?

Imagine, if you will, a world where contracts were not enforced by the state through courts but instead were free to break them as they saw fit. If the state came in and decided to start using its monopoly on violence to enforce contracts, people could say, “The state is coming in, trying to control society and dictate morality.” After all, why should the state enforce a principle of honour and keeping one’s word?

Instead, as with every liberal principle, I think that we assume no action a priori, and then measure whether the perceived benefits outweigh the costs. Just as total authoritarianism is not a good thing, neither is anarchy. Human nature is self-destructive and so should be moderated by the state.

I would add, that to me, a ban on porn would not mean criminalising the users, but the distributors and makers.

22

I hate to say this, but quality of life is a factor. a strong economy with all partaking in the benefits, due to good jobs being available in sufficient numbers to a population able to find house they can afford goes a long way. Also, This idea that I want to enjoy life before settling down often means it’s really hard to start later, as fertility goes down, as do energy levels, so they might stop after the first child, with all the difficulties of bringing up an only child. Perhaps we have to get everything right first, so parents feel they would love to bring souls into this world to enjoy it.

23

Whilst I think that this is a good point, I don’t think that it works. I say this because most people are too self-centred these days. As much as I am not a Christian, I find myself sounding more and more like one every passing day. It seems to me that there is too much headonism in society. As you say, people want to enjoy their life and spend their time on frivolities rather than sitting down and having a child. I have discussed earlier how I think that porn, dating apps, etc. give a false sense of choice and having plenty of options availible so people no longer desire to “settle”.

What I am getting at with all of this, is that I fear that growing the economy and seeing wealth more distributed might actually lower the birth rate further, as people are more and more able to indulge in their luxury-seeking behaviour and don’t want to have children which would disrupt that. Without social change to encourage people to marry earlier and have children, I think that any economic changes will likely not help, as much as I agree that economics are part of the problem.

24

Extremely good points. Thank you. it’s the old democracy versus liberalism argument that you make. Of course, you can’t make someone have children, and shouldn’t. I take your point over the christian values, and this nation is built on them, although much is forgotten, although we can all agree the 10 commandments are very sensible advice. Having said all that, if the desired birth rate argument is driven by a need for money to fund old age, perhaps we should look more closely about how everything is funded rather than, ass it now seems to be, on the fly. A smaller population on this tiny island may in fact not be a bad thing. it0’s not easy. many thanks for your thought provoking response

25

The key words in your lengthy statement is STABLE TWO CHILD FAMILIES

26

Okay so, the biggest reason people aren’t having more children?

1 Word: Affordability.

We cannot separate perception of ability to raise family from willingness to have more children.

The biggest villain in this situation?

Inflation.

I don’t just mean “CPI” here, I mean for instance, housing price inflation. Rent inflation. Food inflation (which is conveniently excluded from broad CPI)

So genuine cost of living.

As a nation, what we do is subsidise housing forever ad-infinatum to utterly depraved ends.

Artificially low interest rates, QE, help to buy, open borders policy, you name it.

These are all just subsidies for the housing market which, is now over 300% of national GDP.

This insanity, I believe, is the core of why birth rates are so depressed, why children are seen as unaffordable, why benefits are spiralling out of control, the works.

And this is a vicious feedback loop as well.

Immigration → Causes housing to be unaffordable → Birth rates drops → Political class wants more immigraiton to prop up population → Repeat until collapse.

Something has to break this cycle. We cannot sustain this entirely ludicrous situation any further.

27

Whilst I agree that inflation is partly the cause, I’d point out that the wage suppression caused by feminism has likely had a bigger impact.

Additionally, society today isn’t geared for children. We don’t encourage or value delayed gratification; people don’t want kids because it would stop them form taking another foreign holiday, or stop them from having the latest fashion accessory. We also have problems with men not being allowed to aproach women anymore.

You might think that single women going to a sperm bank would be a good option, but I tend not to. Reinforcing social norms around chastity and the value of marriage would do wonders. That includes ending no-fault divorce.

There’s actually part of me that can imagine that criminalising fornication would boost the birth rate.

28

The abortion issue has a place in this discussion, methinks. There are so many tools available now to prevent pregnancy, for the man and the woman. So, the question arises again: what harm are we doing to ourselves by aborting, emotionally after the event, and in religious or karmic terms 8depending on your belief system). The argument that a woman’s body is her own is valid, but far from the whole story. Are we killing a living, conscious being, and depriving it of a life, and society of a contributor to it’s future’ this is a horribly difficult subject, but that does not mean it should not be discussed. I would love to hear opinions. thanks