Public and Civil servants accountable

General and Other Policy
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All public servants in any capacity, must be accountable to the British public and that it should be illegal for any public servant to knowingly lie in the capacity of that service.

This would include for example the police indicating that a citizen doesn’t have a specific right, when they actually do.
Or a councillor who has accountability to the public, telling a civil servant to contact a constituent in order to mislead the individual on specific facts.
Both examples of something that is unacceptable in a good society.

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I would hope that it is already illegal for a public servant to lie to or mislead a member of the public. That is clearly a breach of trust that accompanies the public servant’s office. But certainly, a review of any law around this and its enforcement should be carried out.

The treatment of working-class girls (victims of appalling crimes that I hesitate to name specifically here, but which are common knowledge) by the authorities in a number of our towns and cities comes to mind as a particularly egregious example of the breach of this trust.

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Indeed, Public Service should work in the interests of the public.
With the digital age we are in, I’ve recently seen some shambolic behaviour from town meetings to policing up and down the country.
I’m sure there are already some laws and code of conduct in place, I think perhaps the issue is the mechanisms in which the public can report the misconduct, how the these laws and codes are enforced and the transparency of outcomes.
If this is done with transparency from top to bottom, the reforms needed would quickly come to light I would think.

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Actualy, one example where it isn’t is the police, it is specifically legal for the police to lie to the public as part of an investigation. (for example they can tell someone they arrest that they’d found a murder weapon with their fingerprints on it, to get them to confess)

I’ve never liked this since it seems fundamentally wrong for people who are supposed to uphold public morality to be allowed to behave in an immoral way while doing so.

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@JDGuest Sorry to disagree. UK Police are not allowed to lie to a suspect in order to compel a confession. This would almost certainly make any evidence gleaned from the deception or misrepresentation inadmissible in court. Obtaining a confession through deception falls under the term “oppression” and contravenes section 76 PACE 1984 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/section/76

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Ah my bad, I think it’s America where this is still legal then (as presumably it once was here if they had to outlaw it when PACE was passed.)

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I agree with you, more importantly Lord Nolan advised The “Nolan Principles” which are seven principles of public life, namely selflessness, integrity, objectivity, accountability, openness, honesty, and leadership, which were established by the Committee on Standards in Public Life, chaired by Lord Nolan. I think they should be part of their contracts and breaches considered a sackable offence.

Here’s a more detailed explanation of each principle:

Selflessness:

Holders of public office should act solely in terms of the public interest, not for personal gain or the benefit of their family or friends.

Integrity:

Holders of public office must avoid placing themselves under any obligation to people or organizations that might try to influence them inappropriately.

Objectivity:

Holders of public office must act and take decisions impartially, fairly, and on merit, using the best evidence and without discrimination or bias.

Accountability:

Holders of public office are accountable to the public for their decisions and actions and must submit themselves to scrutiny.

Openness:

Holders of public office should be as open as possible about their decisions and actions, and must be transparent.

Honesty:

Holders of public office should be truthful.

Leadership:

Holders of public office should exhibit these principles in their own behavior and treat others with respect. They should actively promote and robustly

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How nice it would be to really have that, sounds like more of a wish list than a real possibility sadly

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It does sound like an ideal, however it was recommended by House of Lords committee, but never implemented ( as ever). It could be the basis for new laws and standards, all we need is a government of integrity and commitment to write the law, and make it legally binding. Standards in public office.

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Maybe it has changed, but during the early 60s I was officially a Civil Servant and at that time it was almost impossible to get fired except where a crime had been committed. Incompetence, refusal to obey orders or even refusal to work were not considered firing offences. Indeed, in many cases it seemed this led to promotion. Removing this safety net, if it still exists, might shake up a few ideas.

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This would leave a loophole with being deceitful or wilfully ignorant to the consequences of policy.

The only way around this is to make political subversion a crime i.e if the impact of policy produces a noticeable pattern of deception antithetical to stated political objectives or aligned with a hidden ideological goal one would be guilty.

For example letting refugees in wouldn’t be a crime

however,

If refuges with questionable claims were let in even when stating the opposite with members posting post-colonial talking points on social media this would be grounds for arrest under suspicion

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In the private sector, if I were told to do something with which I disagreed, (as opposed to illegal or morally repugnant) I would have three choices. Do it anyway, it’s my job. Not do it and get fired. Resign.

Why should the Civil Service get a way out of this?

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Could I ask a question on this. I raised a complaint with a council regarding the council breaking the criminal law on than numerous occassions. Council enforcement officer admitted it. The letter I received from a senior council officer lied by misquoted the criminal law. This lie was deliberate as they knew the facts. (only people who can prosecute in this instance is the council). Senior council officer later stated the council hadn’t been sued yet for the works. Is that lie currently illegal, and if so under what law.

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I voted for this If I could add one observation. We need people who have experience of how it is actually the Civil Service that is holding back much of the change needed in the UK. Former Prime Minister Liz Truss has spoken out on this very issue and described it as basically having a gun held against her head. I’m thinking there may have been a few policy reasons that Truss only lasted a couple of weeks and most of them we may never hear about. She wanted to change things and was basically fired for it. That is what we are up against Trum called it the Swamp, Truss calls it the deep state.

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You are right. The police seem to be at their least trusted level ever. The College of policing seems to be a malign organ that needs to be either closedown, or completely re-organised. We who watch many retired police officers being interviewed are led to believe that the old system, where everyone came into the force as a constable, whatever their education, meant they were trained to follow the law, and the traditions of good British policing, for which they were so respected. I agree we should stop this elitism of education meaning that they do not all have to follow the same train program. the civil servants? That problem is similar, but less clear. perhaps it goes back to the DEI, socialist education system that has been working on our young people for the last twenty years or so. It will take a group go giants to sort out this lot! best wishes

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apologies for the typos! My enthusiasm stopped me checking before posting!

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Have you read her book “Ten years to save the West” A really good read. I think she was too innocent when she became PM. Having been voted in by a very small number of Conservatives, she forgot to take the country with her. A great pity

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Civil servants rule, every one else follows. This has been the case for many years, change the politics keeping the Civil servants the same has been a UK problem that has proved impossible to change, radical overall is required