We need to seriously consider our future in the 21st century. We are a tiny island and have small pieces of territory worldwide. Our “Crown” gave away too much of our territory over the last 75 years. Now we depend on others.
One of the problems we have is the dissolution of our “British isles”. We gave Ireland independence, then gave extremists in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland some forms of local governance and its just leading to more independence talk. Knowing how the “Crown” acts, they will give it away and we will just be struggling as separate countries. Look at how they would willingly give away the Chagos islands.
We need to start talking to the Irish about this subject, we have to get them to re-join us. This will involve big concessions from both sides but the time is now. We have a shared history and combined we could have a decent shot at being a global player.
Ireland has two choices in the future, either the united states of Europe or join the UK as an equal state. We should then concentrate on our territories worldwide and restart some industry.
Are you blaming the actions of the democratically elected government on the Royal Family? Your wording makes it seem like you’re using an (unfortunately) mostly iconic institution as a scapegoat for decades of politicians.
To answer you, yes it’s both. The government / PM has regular meeting with the Crown, and follow guidance.
My point of bringing up the crown is that the Irish dislike the royals. They were the institution we were all forced to grow up with. I think that if we want the Irish to re-join us we need to lose the Crown. And as you say / think, their only iconic, so its no loss if they go.
Please stay on topic about the Irish re-joining though, I’m sure the future of the Crown can be debated elsewhere.
I’m staying completely on-topic. You hold significant reverence for Irish republicanism and suggest mainland Britain must commit cultural self-vandalism in order to appease this for the sake of a union. I am half-English and half-Scottish, and do not believe this to be a worthwhile sacrifice. I am engaging in a civil discussion.
The Republic of Ireland’s prevailing ideology of Irish pseudo-nationalism (hating Britain while enthusiastically destroying their own nation) is nothing but utter contempt for everything British. If the feelings of IRA fans are a concern for you then I question how you decided a union would be a good thing in the slightest.
Additionally, implying you think the Royal Family are engaged in a conspiracy of national becomes even more delusional when you concede to my point of the Royal Family being mostly national icons who hold little sway in government decisions. You have contradicted your narrative. I suggest you devise a reasonable explanation.
The Monarchy holds a large amount of sway over the population and acts as an excellent rallying point for patriotism, (nobody would die for the vague “British values” that politicians insist are important but never define, many in the past have died for things that actually exist, such as King and Country) but I believe the number of Labour, Conservative and Lib-Dem MPs who hold genuine reverence for the Crown is the exact same number as those who care about Great Britain in the slightest: 0.
You suggest betraying an institution that has existed for longer than Britain—and even England—have been a unified nation for, all because it will offend a foreign population who hates us? Ulster Loyalism remains strong. Why betray Northern Ireland for the sake of a country founded by car bombings? You might as well suggest we accept an Islamic theocracy so that we can more easily form a union with Pakistan.
I’m not making any personal attacks on you. I’m merely critiquing what I see as far-left radicalism.
A major reason why I support free speech is because it allows for civil discussion and pushback against unreasonableness. I do hope you share this sentiment.
I completely understand your viewpoint. To be fair, the institution is what it is, and I just believe it needs to end.
I disagree with them being popular large sway of the population, most people I’ve come across could care less about them. It’s mainly the legacy media / “famous people” that promotes them. It also tends to be older people who, lets be honest, grew up without the internet and only had access to limited / controlled information and narratives.
I have no connection to Irish republicism, the past is also the past. When you state they hate the British, Id suggest you change that to the British establishment, the very establishment this website and people like us are meant to be sick of. British and Irish people travel / marry and get along. The “hatred” is more of a rivalry like England and Scotland. When it comes to the establishment that’s where “they hate us”, and who can blame them.
A rallying point for patriotism, that made me chuckle. The only people who turn up for Royal events are old ladies acting like North Koreans waving their flag. More people turn up to a Taylor Swift concert. Many cannot be patriotic to a friend of Jimmy Saville, loyal to the services who covered it up for years.
The topic is about trying to unify the United Kingdom with the Republic of Ireland, trying to build a prosperous 21st century and putting the 20th century behind us. I don’t believe unifying with them and scrapping major parts of our dinosaur establishment is cultural self-vandalism, sorry to say but the establishment have done this already.
We really have 4 choices going forward.
Stay as we are. Good luck.
Join with the Republic of Ireland and try to start fresh keeping the best bits of our cultures. Work with the 5 eyes.
Join a supposed United states of Europe if it comes about. Culture can be kept up to a point.
Become the 53rd state after Canada and Greenland (Im not in favour).
Number two seems a good option.
Love the debate, free speech rules. I’m down for gutting the establishment and doing a “great reset” so to speak. We need a new way forward.
I’ve visited Ireland regularly since I was a lad, and I’ve just come back from another trip. Over the years, I’ve spoken with a wide cross-section of Irish people—from taxi drivers in Dublin to folks living out in the countryside. Honestly, I can’t see them going along with the idea of rejoining the UK. For starters, the historical baggage runs deep. Ireland’s experience under British rule hasn’t exactly faded from memory, and there’s a lingering distrust of British motives.
On top of that, they feel like they’re doing pretty well in the European Union. The single market and the freedom of movement bring tangible benefits, and most Irish voters I’ve met feel like they’re in a good place. There’s no urgent need to switch allegiances or undo decades of progress. Brexit, if anything, has reinforced their confidence in sticking with the EU. Given all that, I doubt they’d jump at the chance to reunite with the UK purely out of goodwill or some sense of shared heritage. It just doesn’t align with how they see their future.
I would consider reading “Liquidation of Empire: The Decline of the British Empire” this wasnt an organic end it was a targeted assault.
Where many foreign influences (mostly US corporations) bribed and harrased the polticians to make them end the empire. They lobbied the US to stop us for example from enforcing the law in palestine which led to the issues we see today.
The Suez crisis is the most obvious example.
But the party that did nearly all of this was the Tories, Labour did do India which was a big one. But this was a betrayal by the british establishment for their own self enrichment.
This is why Rhodesia moved away because the british was pushing “majority rule” in africa, which had failed several times before reaching them.
I dont think Ireland will happily join unless the condition of the country vastly improved. I think there are many things that would need to happen for that.
But I agree projecting ones own worldview over others is natural for a self confident nation and something we should do, in time but only after some major consolidation first.
One thing I should mention is that in every ex-british colony or nation the new ruling elite gain legitimacy from declaring that they are better than what they replaced and that all issues they have now are because of what they replaced i.e. the british’s fault.
This means that the governments literally fund history lessons where the empire is evil and leaving it saves the country.
You have to realise that Ireland is the same and nearly everyone there has been brought up and propagandised against the british.
Its basically the same thing that happens when a new party takes over after an election but on steroids because they are not expecting the british to return to make them pay for these policies.
Your response is disjointed and ignores some rather obvious conclusions. You imply the Royal Family can’t inspire patriotism, then denounce the patriotism they do inspire as similar to North Korea? It seems contradictory to me. What manner of nationalism is palatable for you? If even waving a flag is going too far, then I have to question what definition of “patriotism” you’re operating under. Personally, I believe in the continuation, improvement and primacy of British institutions, culture and the British population. I oppose those who want to essentially turn the United Kingdom into a micro-America. (Endless immigration and “melting pot” rhetoric, Marxist “march of progress” ideology that denigrates our heritage and has resulted in total anarcho-tyranny to the point of being unable to affirm gender, cultural relativism, globalism etc.)
Statistically speaking, the support for Monarchy far outweighs republicanism.
I can’t help but view talk of a “year zero” reset as hostile to Britain. It is quite literally the abandonment of organic Britain in favour of a forced, designed, inhuman machine. A people cannot be asked to leave their identity behind. This ideology is exactly why we are in the current cultural situation of a billion genders. There will be no sense of belonging in a “great reset” experiment. All that can happen is endless toil for no real goal. Whatever “British” is rewritten to mean can be rewritten again and again. It’s a nightmare. There’s nothing appealing or desirable to me about your proposed utopia where everyone suddenly suffers national amnesia. I don’t want to leave Britain behind for a meaningless economic zone.
Statically, support for the Monarchy is strongest among the old, but I must point out that a growing amount of statistical youth in Great Britain are not British. The resentment that third-world immigrants feel toward British institutions including the Monarchy should be factored in. I believe rot like this is to be rejected and combated, not embraced.
Your proposal for the United Kingdom’s future is quite blatantly missing the most popular answer: CANZUK. The core Commonwealth Realms of Canada, Australia and New Zealand are statistically seen as our closest allies. Why not align ourselves closer with nations that are so intrinsically linked to Britain in culture, population and heritage? It’s a far better and more realistic solution than a United Europe (tried many times in history and always failed) or submitting ourselves to the turmoil of the United States.
I agree ex-colonies have had anti British propaganda. This has happened and we cant change it. I’m sure a lot in Ireland see through it and see us as friends in this new time. It was pleasing to see Irish and British flags side by side last summer. The Irish are starting to get sick of the EU now and all the immigration that comes with it, its only money that’s keeping them in.
This is the time to put the past behind us. Framed as a fresh start, with respect to future threats and economic reasons, it’s beneficial for both. I’d happily let some government departments be run from Dublin and other cities around the UK.
We are so patriotic that no one wants to join the army. Myself and others WANT TO FEEL British, and do hold this nostalgic view of the green and pleasant land. It’s hard to be patriotic when we are governed by deception and not consent.
Just to address the flag waving. The left leaning media has mocked / ridiculed and demonised having the British flag out. Words such as “Little Englander” and other racial slants were used. We were made to feel embarrassed about our history and if you show the flag you support genocide etc. Hopefully you understand what I’m trying to convey.
Also, and I do laugh at the irony of this, the reason I bring up North Korea and their patriotism is that they get mocked about it and have done for years. I remember 15 years ago when their previous leader died and people were crying, the media in the west said it was ALL fake and people cry otherwise their punished. Yes this is partly true, I’m sure some cried genuinely too. Whenever they wave their flags it gets mocked. So when I see it happening here I laugh at the mirror image. I laugh when the legacy media reports “street parties” and its just one of two small roads that have mince pies and bunting out.
People like you and me are on here having a civil discussion, because WE ARE PATRIOTIC. I do ask myself, what am I patriotic too?
You do realise it was Saville’s friend Charles that gave a nice speech calling for the great reset at the WEF.
Also, you have used YouGov as a source. This is laughable. Please don’t rely on legacy sources that are not trustworthy one bit.
On CANZUK, I’ve always liked the idea, it could work in theory. It’s just the vast distance of New Zealand and Australia that does it for me. Our Navy doesn’t exist and we would have to rely on others to defend that land.
Talking about defence, the deafening silence regarding Canada being overtaken by the USA is funny. If you know you know. The reset is in full flow, people just don’t see it yet. Where is the Crown defending it’s Canadian interests?
We cant just declare Ireland part of the UK, we need good constructive and QUICK talks regarding this. Bringing up the past and nostalgic ways will only muddy things. This is why MY POINTS have been talking about the FUTURE. The responses here seem to drag up the past and a willingness to not to move on with things and change ways.
Move forward, re-join the British Isles back up, work on our side of the Atlantic with the North American Union. This will secure our future.
Important to understand that Irish rebellion was instigated by the French and the Holy Roman Empire, when they were enemies of Britain: they sowed division and rebellion, exactly to weaken the United Kingdom. Same thing with devolution and the Irish Sea Border: all weakening the UK, exactly as foreign states would want.
That said, the Irish Republic is still socialist and anti-British, from that, and from marxist, soviet, and other influences. It can’t just be fixed overnight.
What we could do is, like Trump vs. the EU, stop giving handouts to The Republic of Ireland, and perhaps even consider tariffs, until they treat the UK with mutual respect. At least then they’ll be acknowledging what we really give to them. That’s the kind of truth you can start to build a REAL friendship upon.
